This text on Horace begins with mentioning older texts on him – not contemporary ones like in that text on Virgil

Another one who lived the same time as Cicero, this one dying only 8 years before the birth of Christ. People have been writing about him through the ages. Even neech called him noble, which is rare. I was thinking of posting about Ovid, then I thought his name was too similar to–.

Remembering yesterday when that one scholar said that interpretations of Cicero of the last 30 years reflect the modern personality, now I wonder if I should read that 1561 book on Horace instead of this 2003 one. The thing with some of these obscurer poets from those old old times is that you can never know if they have their rightful place on the periphery of the modern canon because they are simply against the temperament of a decadent age, so one is forced to do independent study of them. Horace wrote satires for instance, and we know that certain kinds of satire are not allowed today.

This sort of thing alone has philosophical potential

a subject-matter that concentrates on the political and moral issues which were thought important by the new regime, and an impressive seriousness of style

He was friendly to the policies of the emperor Augustus for instance, and some can probably relate to that today (wrote “toady” on accident). How many frogs are toadies themselves? So sad. The glorious digital revolution! Nothing will save a slave.

It’s easy to find timelessness when studying these old writers

‘betraying the mysteries’ seems to refer primarily to state secrets

Augustus’ “history of corruption” – yes, “Augustus'” – that’s one state secret that I immediately think of.

If Horace is a flatterer of the powers that be, maybe I should pivot to Aristophanes who was the opposite, more my type of poet. Staying for Horace for now, I spend too much time on the Greeks. I really can’t imagine not being Aristophanic though, sounds like a waste of a life. Best art of the ancient world in general though- the Odyssey? If you are personally, emotionally more affected by some Greek or Roman text like that than you are affected by the New Testament then you are a fundamentally different person from most in the west who have lived. As I said, neech saw a nobility in Horace- he contrasted that with the popular and sentimental – that is what the New Testament is. Now I’m cynically wondering if there is a “Horace” whose name we don’t know who wrote the NT. Cicero was martyred too, imagine if he had been the Jesus of the west.

Timelessness?

Ah, so he was a visitor of “Epicurus’ garden”

Epicurean elements can to some extent be reconciled with traditional Roman attitudes

If Augustus had been inspired by some of those Greeks I might have flattered him too.

Being inspired by Epicurus is sort of like an American being inspired by Emerson, say.

Some people go even further back than only a couple hundred years, we could probably do it again

These poets have survived to this day because they give us an idea of “what the point of writing is”. I.e. they exemplify the Idea of writing. People read them and find originary being.

The kings are Eastern rulers who, because of their total and arbitrary power, are dreaded by their own subjects, but must dread Jupiter in turn. H is not arguing that the rulers are God’s representatives on earth, and he would not have regarded Augustus as either a rex or as timendus

The derogatory form of rex is despot or tyrant, while timendus is defined as “which is to be feared”.

The God above Yahweh

proprios implies ownership, but its main function is to underline the limits of a king’s imperium; Jupiter on the other hand rules over everything

What is the point of scholars if they aren’t able to contextualize these ancients in the modern day? Oh right, they are “owned” by the timendus rex.

Still, the description of this book said it wasn’t for beginners in it was right- very dense and informative some of these scholars – an ode to scholars!

Always praying for something like this aren’t we lads?

Jupiter’s power to move the cosmos with the minimum effort

I can existentially relate to this more than to any Christian OR secular talk.

The subtle effect of Spartacus and the Gladiator is that people forget about these poets from that time.

They won’t be teaching this side of them in the universities’ classics departments

“What side, what do you mean?” You don’t think of any particular group when you read that on this site, eh?

Speaking of “disgusting”

the tyrant is the extreme example of the lust for wealth and power

These poets are alive and well

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